Comments on: When is a Link a Paid Link? http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html The SEO Blog with attitude Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:24:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Judith 'deCabbit' Lewis http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3516 Judith 'deCabbit' Lewis Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:54:34 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3516 Ya Nick I so agree. It's a difficult bit of math and figuring out they will have to do and frankly I don't envy them the task, nor do I believe I could do a better job. Anything I can think of, I can think of ways to game. I enjoy SEO by the SEA and hope folk do follow him (he he - get it? do follow? *teeheehee*). I love the patents and wonder what we'll be talking about in a year :) Ya Nick I so agree. It’s a difficult bit of math and figuring out they will have to do and frankly I don’t envy them the task, nor do I believe I could do a better job. Anything I can think of, I can think of ways to game.

I enjoy SEO by the SEA and hope folk do follow him (he he - get it? do follow? *teeheehee*). I love the patents and wonder what we’ll be talking about in a year :)

]]> By: Julie Joyce http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3494 Julie Joyce Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:55:17 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3494 Since Nick brought him up I'd like to take the chance to say that everyone in SEO should read Bill Slawski's blog and talk to him. He is seriously brilliant and just as charming as he is intelligent. I am going to begin stalking him now... Since Nick brought him up I’d like to take the chance to say that everyone in SEO should read Bill Slawski’s blog and talk to him. He is seriously brilliant and just as charming as he is intelligent. I am going to begin stalking him now…

]]> By: Nick Wilsdon http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3493 Nick Wilsdon Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:42:51 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3493 Well said Judith. Payment is there in some form or another. Personally I don't think Google foresaw the amount people would be prepared to spend on links, or that it would come to threaten their own advertising programs. They moved the balance of power to links to avoid on-page spam which was effecting the user experience, techniques such as KWD stuffing were making the web unreadable. Still I'm sure they are working on ways of returning the balance to the content without, as you say Judith, moving us all back to onpage spam. It was very interesting to talk to Bill Slawski at PubCon concerning the patents on ranking of page 'sections' rather than 'documents'. In the meantime, Matt will work on the social solution, lots of FUD and some tactical bannings. Well said Judith. Payment is there in some form or another. Personally I don’t think Google foresaw the amount people would be prepared to spend on links, or that it would come to threaten their own advertising programs. They moved the balance of power to links to avoid on-page spam which was effecting the user experience, techniques such as KWD stuffing were making the web unreadable.

Still I’m sure they are working on ways of returning the balance to the content without, as you say Judith, moving us all back to onpage spam. It was very interesting to talk to Bill Slawski at PubCon concerning the patents on ranking of page ’sections’ rather than ‘documents’. In the meantime, Matt will work on the social solution, lots of FUD and some tactical bannings.

]]> By: Judith 'deCabbit' Lewis http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3426 Judith 'deCabbit' Lewis Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:14:46 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3426 @Doug - It's the only way out of this dilema but it screws their ranking algo because of the onpage manipulation, links were a great way of measuring something more. Early on it was fantastic but now, it's just gamed. Links have to be discounted but there isn't anything else to take their place yet. I'm also evil and a big fan of traditional marketing. @Trisha - nail... on... head! Brilliant analogy! @Doug - It’s the only way out of this dilema but it screws their ranking algo because of the onpage manipulation, links were a great way of measuring something more. Early on it was fantastic but now, it’s just gamed. Links have to be discounted but there isn’t anything else to take their place yet.
I’m also evil and a big fan of traditional marketing.

@Trisha - nail… on… head! Brilliant analogy!

]]> By: geri http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3418 geri Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:56:32 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3418 Yes, all links are paid... some just not with money. Yes, all links are paid… some just not with money.

]]> By: Tricia Hanrahan http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3409 Tricia Hanrahan Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:49:03 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3409 Strong statement Judith but my cynical little heart agrees - all links in some way paid for. Even in the supposedly not for profit world of academia 'links' or rather citations are fiercely fought over. The levels to which certain institutions, facilities and even individual academics would go to would surprise you - PR parties, book launches, 'special' tours and schmoozing galore. This only increased with the rise of the now defunct RQF (Research Quality Framework - designed to guide higher research funding). It has long been a problem in bibliometric circles about how many citations are in fact valid and stem from pure hearts (it is believed that only approx 30% are). How many are vanity citations? How many are in fact really related to the article being presented? How many citations are made only for the purpose of having your work cited in return? How many are made to other researchers in the same faculty? Just swap citations for links and Google for citation indexes - same game, different field. As long as 'citations' are the main factor in determining funding and tier ranking, payment - in some form or other - for them will always occur. Strong statement Judith but my cynical little heart agrees - all links in some way paid for.

Even in the supposedly not for profit world of academia ‘links’ or rather citations are fiercely fought over. The levels to which certain institutions, facilities and even individual academics would go to would surprise you - PR parties, book launches, ’special’ tours and schmoozing galore. This only increased with the rise of the now defunct RQF (Research Quality Framework - designed to guide higher research funding). It has long been a problem in bibliometric circles about how many citations are in fact valid and stem from pure hearts (it is believed that only approx 30% are). How many are vanity citations? How many are in fact really related to the article being presented? How many citations are made only for the purpose of having your work cited in return? How many are made to other researchers in the same faculty? Just swap citations for links and Google for citation indexes - same game, different field.

As long as ‘citations’ are the main factor in determining funding and tier ranking, payment - in some form or other - for them will always occur.

]]> By: mattstoddart http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3402 mattstoddart Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:50:54 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3402 Until there is some intuitive, clairvoyant WP plugin that can automatically embed links, you have to assume that there's motivation behind every outbound link on a site. And clearly the strongest motivation is always going to be cash or free stuff or whatever. Sure, there will ALWAYS be the editorially given links to other articles/resources but it gets real murky when you try to assume that Google could even attempt to tell the difference. Until there is some intuitive, clairvoyant WP plugin that can automatically embed links, you have to assume that there’s motivation behind every outbound link on a site. And clearly the strongest motivation is always going to be cash or free stuff or whatever. Sure, there will ALWAYS be the editorially given links to other articles/resources but it gets real murky when you try to assume that Google could even attempt to tell the difference.

]]> By: Doug Heil http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3399 Doug Heil Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:29 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3399 Nice post and thoughts; but splitting hairs comes to mind. Your best idea is just to weigh ALL links coming in a lot less than they are now.... although I've always contended that incoming links are not as important as the SEO types say they are. Of course; that's my take on things from ten years experience with this stuff. Nice post and thoughts; but splitting hairs comes to mind.

Your best idea is just to weigh ALL links coming in a lot less than they are now…. although I’ve always contended that incoming links are not as important as the SEO types say they are. Of course; that’s my take on things from ten years experience with this stuff.

]]> By: Elise http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3398 Elise Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:57:04 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3398 Don't forget there's 3rd-party payments and internal investment. I may not have a link on my blog posting that's explicitly or implicitly paid for by someone else, whether they're a customer or not, but I may have a link on my blog that I've paid for, myself, in terms of investing in the business. By writing the posting, linking to the community/partners/client targets/whatever, I'm investing some of my own time and reputation in the interests of building or running my online money-making enterprise. I'd submit that there's very few blogs out there that are purely altruistic affairs, with absolutely zero intention of personal or collective end-state monetary or "in-kind" gain at the end of the road. At least blogs that the Google PR machine is interested in. Don’t forget there’s 3rd-party payments and internal investment. I may not have a link on my blog posting that’s explicitly or implicitly paid for by someone else, whether they’re a customer or not, but I may have a link on my blog that I’ve paid for, myself, in terms of investing in the business. By writing the posting, linking to the community/partners/client targets/whatever, I’m investing some of my own time and reputation in the interests of building or running my online money-making enterprise.

I’d submit that there’s very few blogs out there that are purely altruistic affairs, with absolutely zero intention of personal or collective end-state monetary or “in-kind” gain at the end of the road. At least blogs that the Google PR machine is interested in.

]]> By: dzver http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3394 dzver Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:11:08 +0000 http://www.seo-chicks.com/362/when-is-a-link-a-paid-link.html#comment-3394 So seo-ish. I run a blog, which does not have a single paid link, except adsense (http://dzver.com/blog/ - in bulgarian). So seo-ish. I run a blog, which does not have a single paid link, except adsense (http://dzver.com/blog/ - in bulgarian).

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